Rebuke of John MacArthur Cessationist over Divine Healing Testimony-Part 2
Cessationist Preacher Building a Case
Continuation of email discussion with Jake, a cessationist.
Correspondence with Don Mann on Divine Healing versus Cessationism – Part 2
Or, the Scriptural basis for why divine or faith or miracle healing is still occurring today.
Incited when Jake read my Prayer Testimony Article: Faith Healing Miracle Testimony with Methods of Dominion Right On Time Part 1 and 2.
Dear Don, I was wondering if you and i could meet at a hospital together and heal some people in the icu, hospice or burn center? Where and when would you like to meet? Jake
My reply is below as I gave a combined response to this and the next email as I did not respond right away to the first one.
If your ideology was authentic, no character attacks or protracted argumentation would be necessary. The true miracles and delegated power of the apostles did not require argumentation nor attack because they were self-evidently true and real. [This is false as the apostles were thrown in jail for working miracles.] The miracles (as well as their poverty and suffering) proved them to be “true” apostles of Jesus and gave credibility to their words. They did not write nor need to write on how to unleash God’s power for health and wealth because that was not God’s will. God gave them power (for a time) to verify their apostolic authority and their message: that Jesus is the Christ and that by faith in His name, salvation was guaranteed and that those who did believe, would and could endure, persecution, hardship and suffering for God’s glory and their sanctification.
Your insults and verbosity indicate that words are all you have even though you claim to have more. [That is false as this thread started with me relating an answer to prayer for someone else] Your reliance on words to “prove” your “power and authority” is the exact opposite of the what the apostles did. The entire abhorrent, aberrant, “greedy ” word of Faith” movement sucks it’s followers dry with false words and twisting of Scripture which promises wealth, power and health to all who embrace it, by playing on their own greed and/or ignorance. It is about power and wealth and manipulation. Paul warned about those who would use the Gospel for their own gain. This was not even the example of the apostles. You are in line with it, you probably even believe it, but we were all deceived in many ways. Titus 3:3
I would suggest that if you respond, you should model love, respect and humility. You have been very offensive, made suggestive/accusations about my character and grossly disobeyed Paul’s admonition in 2 Tim 2: 24 “The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition,…” [My use of strong words is kindness, so on Judgment Day you will have no excuse for retaining your perversions and denying all the people you could have helped had you learned to use the name of Jesus properly. Jesus used much stronger words than I do; He called you a “pit of vipers,” and a “whitewashed wall.” What I have not done is turn you over to Satan as Paul did to some of his detractors.] Though you will not persuade me to your error, if you are a believer, you are to demonstrate godly character in your manners. [Jesus called your kind, “full of dead men’s bones,” I can do no less.] So far, in my eyes, not only your ideology betrays you, but also you manner. [There you have the key issue. Jake, yours is an ideology and not a relationship with the true and living Jesus. ]
I am done corresponding on this subject with you Don. There is plenty of truth available if you will humble yourself to receive it. Many have abandoned the soul wrecking, disillusioning, Health, wealth and word of Faith movements. I will pray that the Lord will show you your error as well.
Don 8/6/14 to Jake
Jake, you are way too late. I have seen thousands of miracles already, and done many myself. I teach others to do them as Jesus commanded, and as the heritage and responsibility of every believer in Christ, and they see wonderful answers to the use of the name of Jesus. I am in the business of spreading and doing what you say cannot be done, which is exactly what Jesus commanded in the Great Commission found in Matt 28, and re-stated in Mark 16. We see the results Jesus promised to the glory of God. So for me, the cat is out of the bag and I can see the cessationist emperor has no clothes, and I am not ashamed to shout it to the hills.
I do understand that, while small in number, cessationist groups include Reformed Churches, Conservative Baptist and some Brethren groups. To me they are like those who said men could never fly by trying to shut down a modern airport. There is a difference between saying it cannot be done, and that it is not being done right. Cessationists make an ostrich with its head in the sand look open-minded.
I proclaim that it is by Sola Scriptura, only Scripture, that man can work with Holy Spirit to produce miracles. As one said, “The more absolute the Scriptures become to you, the more you absolutely see of God doing miracles through you.” And another said, “You will be divinely healed by one who narrows themselves to only Scripture more than yourself.”
From my position the current Scriptures makes the Bible infallible and of sufficient authority for man to work with God in divine wonders or any other part of life. So yes, biblical inerrancy is a major tenant of my life. Any errors in the current text can be resolved with a good Greek and Hebrew dictionary and some corrections of obvious scribal errors. And that the Scriptures as written are a sufficient guide in all matters of faith. My biggest problem is finding people who are willing to believe what is written, rather than those who redefine it to fit their experience, rather than letting the Bible define their experiences.
Your failures do not define the Bible, but proclaim your inability to seek God rather than blame Him.
As the Scripture says:
1 Cor 2:4-5
4 “And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration [so that others can see and wonder] of the Spirit and of dunamis/power (miracle-working):
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the dunamis/power (miracle-working like Jesus did and still does through believing people) of God.”
This dunamis power is the same power that Jesus did miracles with. So if your current faith in not based on the present ability for Jesus to continue doing miracles through believers, then your faith, by definition is reprobate, useless for demonstrating God in dunamis power, agape love and a sound mind. You may preach Jesus, but you cannot demonstrate the reality that He is Lord and alive today.
Therefore your limited and heretical version of the gospel is based on the wisdom of men, and not the dunamis power of God.
1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching (proclamation to obey as the word of the king) was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration (visible manifestation, operation of the supernatural) of the Spirit and of dunamis/power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the dunamis/power of God.”
This is the biblical testimony of the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ. While many debate whether the commands to work miracles is the deciding element of right gospel preaching, the testimony of New Testament preachers with Philip in Acts 8, Peter in Acts 5 where “all were healed” by supernatural power, and again Paul in:
Rom 15:19 “Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
Here Paul makes it abundantly clear that if your preaching is not with Holy Spirit signs and wonders, you are not preaching the Gospel of God in Jesus.
And again Paul says:
1 Cor 1:17 “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”
So you may preach the cessationist perversion of the gospel, you are only preaching words of wisdom and that means you are denying the power of the cross. I did not say this Paul did.
Since we are talking, not whether or not the original apostles are still alive, but if the One who works the miracles, Holy Spirit, is still in the church. If Holy Spirit is in anything, you get all of Him as He is, was and will be and not just a portion of Him. Holy Spirit has not ceased to be in the church, therefore there is no valid biblical basis for Cessationist theology.
And since Holy Spirit is ever with the church, then this same dunamis power is available for those who believe, and by definition, then cessationists have self-eliminated themselves from this. Saying God does capricious miracles once in a while denies the faithfulness seen in the sun that rises every day. And God has told us that is how He is.
19 “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”
Ps 8:3 “When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained.”
Back in the 80’s, in what became known as the Charismatic Renewal, there were so many previously Cessationist Southern Baptists speaking in tongues, and doing and receiving miracles, that many simply left that dead old religion and followed God. Over time the Charismatic and Pentecostal groups even became accepted in local ministerial associations.
Miracles By Satan: For those who claim we do miracles by the power of Satan, rather than God. At least we can agree that someone is doing miracles, which again destroys the Cessationist logic. Here is the answer Jesus gave for the same accusation:
17 “But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.”
24 “But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.”
Now most cessationists cannot respond here because they typically cast out no devils. Even the Pharisees/religious leaders in Jesus’ day were more spiritually advanced than today’s cessationists. But I do pray and work miracles in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. And the one who does the supernatural part is Holy Spirit, the Finger (or power) of God. This is the same Holy Spirit anyone gets when they get born again in Jesus.
And even the Jews of today still cast out devils. So here is an amazing thing. Christians who are cessationists cannot cast out devils, but Jews, who use the same Holy Spirit as Jesus did, can cast out devils. So Jews still get to access the power of God under the Old Covenant, which technically no longer exists, yet, according to the cessationists, we Christians under a new and better covenant, cannot access Holy Spirit for the same task. Now that makes no sense at all. If anything we ought to be able to cast out demons or devils easier. And for non-cessationists, also known as Continuationists, Christian believers that appears to be true in many cases. So who do you think had the hand of God with them?
Bible Revision Stopped: What I think is really cool is that, at one time, the cessationists ridiculed Mark 16:14-20 as being not valid, until recent research and findings has established that as solid biblical truth. Even some of the Bible translations that eliminated these verses have put them back in.
14 “Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
Not to mention that if you needed it, I could show you where all of those statements can be found elsewhere in the New Testament. And of course that is included when Jesus said:
Matt 28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
And that “all things” includes doing:
17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
And this has never been repealed either. But the criteria, is that these signs follow believers. I can teach you how to believe, but you do have to do it.
Character: My comments have been observations; the character attacks would be entirely separate. I have no idea if you brush your teeth every day, help little old ladies across the street, or what. But I do know this from your words; you will watch people die and not offer them the hand of Jesus to set them free so you can avoid the possibility of not seeing an answer to your prayer. All I know about your character is from your emails, and that is a sad reflection for a born again Christian.
You would rather walk into a hospital room full of concerned and even grieving people, and put on a show that dismisses their humanity, so you can attempt to prove a point that you have no intention of accepting if your expectation is not seen. You would rather knock the hope out of hurting people, rather than give them hope. At this time in your heart, it does not matter if you saw a thousand people divinely healed in the name of Jesus or just one; you would never bow your knee to truth or Jesus your Lord. Jesus said that, not me.
Crassness: This reminds me of a special I recently saw on Donald Rumsfeld, I think it was the History Channel, when he was Secretary of Defense. He related how he went into a hospital room where all the medical staff told him that the man in the bed would never make it. They assured him there was no way. Yet that man’s wife held hope for her unconscious husband. Rumsfeld then got choked up as he said the guy lived and actually got better.
Your tactics would have been sure to knock out whatever hope she had and how ever they got their miracle, but you know she prayed and perhaps others prayed. You would have “corrected” her and pronounced that your true god, science, had no hope and do not waste your time in prayer, for God does not hear. And you would have done this to prove you are right. Thank God you were not there. And you want me to take you to hospital rooms of suffering people? Such cruel pride deserves little respect and much abuse.
The level of crassness you have displayed is far beyond my ability to articulate. And is not the work of God, but of Satan, our enemy. In legal terms, this makes you a traitor to the Kingdom of God. To prove me wrong, all you have to do is to stir yourself up into Jesus, and go heal a few of those suffering people in the name of Jesus.
Here is how I have been responding to you, just to be clear. Matt 7:6 “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”
My observation is that you have proven the cruel metal that has its evil grip on your soul at this time. It is sad to see such potential lost in such bitterness and fear. You are made for better, and are living well below what you are made for in Jesus.
But you have given me a new phrase to work with. There are no atheists in foxholes, and neither are there any cessationists.
I have read of how other cessationists have used your offer of going to a hospital as a method of debunking “faith healers” or continuationists. I did not understand why your perverse offer affected me so negatively until I thought about it. Now I know you would take delight in the death and suffering of all to prove your point. I often take others with me as I minister, but I never realized that I trusted that they were more interested in seeing the sick healed than assisting the suffering and death of others as you are.
This puts you in the position of this evil king:
Luke 23:8 “And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.”
Prayer Listing: Know that rather than berating you and your insensitivity, I have added you to my prayer list.
Matt 5:44 “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”
And since you are so perfect in your theology, you have added me to your prayer list for blessings also, right? I thought not, but perhaps you would consider obeying something out of Scripture, and do it.
Provoke to Righteousness: Consider:
23 “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works.”
Here, the word translated “provoke,” in the original Greek, means to incite to good, or dispute in anger, contention. There is nothing casual about this word, or the message from God. So if I am disputing your false statements and heresies, I am perfectly in order by the Scriptures. Those who refuse to hear and stay trapped to do the will of the devil use this verse in 2 Timothy 2:24 to complain about anything they do not like. And they ignore other commands such as:
10 “A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.”
You have already passed the first and second admonition, or mild rebuke, so I am commanded to reject you. This means you have gone from an honest misunderstanding to where you are now a heretic and admonishing truth as one fully deceived. Now does that sound patient with your corruptions? When you call me a liar as I report a testimony, that is when you crossed the line. I am simply reporting what another said happened, and you call them corrupt. How arrogant can you be?
My subsequent many scripture references, you call them many words, I call it case logic from the Word of God that demands a rational judgment, which you seem incapable of at this time. No one can say that you were not shown by many Scriptures your deceptions.
17 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned [from Paul]; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”
And such as yourself deny the next major statement:
Rom 16:20 “And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.”
By your very statements, you disqualify yourself from this kind of supernatural working that God says is your purpose and He has equipped you with Holy Spirit to be able to do. This is a restatement of Acts 10:38 as it applies to the Body of Christ.
Acts 10:38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
And as Jesus was sent to do what is described in Acts 10:38, Jesus has assigned us, the Body of Christ, the same task.
John 20:21 “Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.”
And from that same letter to Timothy that urges patience, in just a few later verses, Paul also says, specifically aimed at cessationists:
2 Tim 3:5-7
5 “Having a form of godliness, but denying the dunamis/power (miracle-working power and ability ) thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
As the Bible describes your mind as defiled and unbelieving, you cannot even accept reports of any and all kinds in order to maintain your deceptions.
15 “Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate (useless, like garbage, not able to perform the miracles that Jesus said was the basics for Christians).”
God Does the Healing: I don’t heal people, God does. Or technically it is Jesus by Holy Spirit by me as a member of His body, who does the healings. But just like Jesus as a human, I am God’s soul and body on the job. That is what you are made for in Jesus. Divine healing fits the Bible category of good works like Jesus did as opposed to ordinary, human good works.
Divine Healing is not all Instant: Concerning visiting hospital rooms and the sick, not every event is instant. Some divine healings are immediate, others are over time. For Jesus, the ten lepers got healed as they went. This could have been over a few hours or days.
12 “And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.”
Sometimes it takes multiple prayers. Jesus had to minister twice to one man:
22 “And he (Jesus) cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.”
Here are two where it was within an hour or so, but not instant; one with Jesus and one with Paul.
47 “When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.
48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.
50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.
52 Then inquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.
53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
54 This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.”
16 “And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.”
If you were the Bible expert you claim to be, you would already know this.
If no one got healed immediately when I minister, none of that changes the Word of God. You remember, the Bible we have established you only partially believe but are an expert on? And could I trust you to hang around and see when they do get healed? Of course not, that would require care and concern, of which I detect little. Not to mark them off on a sheet, but to see the love of God in action and their lives bettered, and your heart encouraged in truth.
Go See: Thank you for the offer to go to hospital rooms with you. Since I already know Jesus still does miracles for people, your participation is not for me, but for you. God has never ceased from helping people who operate in faith that He will save.
But I already know three things concerning you:
1) There are lots of places you can go see miracles, books you can read about them, even with detailed medical and hostile media reports, and lots of videos on You Tube to see miracles as they occur. Some back in the 1950’s and some recently as last week.
2) The issue is, will you believe if you see a miracle of any kind in any period since the last of the original apostles died? I would assume you mean either Paul or John. I think the records indicate John died last. All we need is one answer to prayer in the name of Jesus over some 1800 years to prove your cessationist house of cards is wrong. Since that has already happened millions of times, you do not need to go with me to see miracles.
3) Based on where your heart is, it is only by reading and believing Scriptures that you will believe, seeing thousands of miracles, much less one, with not crack that hard heart of yours at this time.
God’s Sorrow Over Lack of Divine Healing: Here is Jesus’ lament over your kind:
Matt 13:15 “For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”
And concerning how Holy Communion works for you, here is another lament by God over ignorance and hard hearts in sickness and death.
1 Cor 11:30 “For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
This problem is not new; here God describes it relative to individual death and societal destruction in this lament by God:
Hos 4:6 “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”
We are not sick, weak and die early deaths by administrative decisions by God, but just like failure to open the windows when we smell natural gas, we have kept in ignorance. Since you have no faith for answered prayer, you have already disqualified yourself from being the priest and king God has made you in Jesus.
1 Peter 2:7-9
7 “Unto you therefore which believe he (Jesus) is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:”
And yes, you fit the description of the disobedient, unbelieving, as you have not obeyed Jesus’ commands to heal the sick in your city. Notice, this does not change your assignment from God, but whether you are doing as commanded or not. Anytime you are ready to learn and obey, God is there for you to work miracles through you, as He is for any Christian.
Since Jesus said the Old Testament will never pass away, this still applies.
18 “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law (Old Testament), till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
In verse 19 you are teaching others to break the commandments of Jesus. You are still in the Kingdom, but your position is beneath all others because you are so vocal, you and John MacArthur.
Since John MacArthur’s show is called “Grace to you,” here is what God says you are to do with this grace.
Rom 5:17 “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.”
This verse clearly states that if you receive this grace that is directed to you, you will reign in life by Jesus. To reign means to be a king, that what you say happens. Since it is obvious that you are not reigning in love, truth and power in this world, it means that you have failed to receive this grace and the gift of righteousness in such a way that what you say happens, including divine healing and other answers to prayer.
So whatever you and John MacArthur are preaching, it is falling way short of the glory of God, and that means it is sin because you teach people not to have faith in God so He can answer, and you mock those who do. This is not what I say, but Holy Spirit through Paul:
Rom 3:23 “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
Rom 14:23 “…for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”
Even though you have denied Jesus and His power, this still applies to you.
James 4:17 “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
And yes, that “good” includes divine healing and other signs and wonders done in and by the name of Jesus.
We are Commanded to Teach Others to do Divine Healing: And that Jesus’ words, including the commands to teach others to heal, will not pass away.
Luke 21:33 “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
And here is just one such command of Jesus.
Matt 10:6 “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.”
8 “And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.”
19 “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy (Satan, the devil): and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.”
These are part of what Jesus commanded that disciples are to teach others to do until the end of the world, and the end of the world has not happened yet.
Matt 28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Suggestions: But, so you will have no excuses on the Day of Judgment, here are some suggestions.
I suggest you go see Rev. Charles Ndifon; he is in Rhode Island and closer to you than I am. I seem to remember one story about him where one like you stood up in a meeting to ridicule him, and if I remember correctly, ended up hanging on the wall for a couple of hours. He was moved and held by some supernatural force. I have seen such people “frozen” for a period of time also. Are you really going to “play?” God does not seem to do that often, but maybe you will be a “special” one.
If you really want to grow in Christ, get all three of my Power Trilogy books and read them, and then we can talk. They are full of Scripture. This is a way you can “know your enemy.” Also get the book I mentioned earlier about Rev. Ndifon. And he has a much fuller ministry schedule than I have. He used to have a divine healing service every Friday night when he is in the country.
Or go look up Todd White, A. A. Allen, Jack Coe, and Tim Storey on www.youtube.com. Just type in their name and add the word “miracles.” The ones with Allen and Coe are juried, where a local judge certified that the people had the diseases claimed, and that they were healed as shown on TV. This back in the 1950’s and this was the only way they could be on TV then. The preaching is not really useful, but the miracles are awesome. And for people like you, hopefully seeing these miracles can be compelling.
Rather than firing from the hip, I suggest you go read the scriptures I referenced in my reply to you earlier. It is obvious you did not. If you had, I could maybe expect a few questions, or a thank you that this is what the Word of God says. Rather, I got a tirade on subjects I never even brought up, and you stereotyped me into without knowing me.
You must work to believe the Scriptures: Do you seriously think that no matter how many miracles you see Jesus do through me or anyone else, that I think it will convert you? Are you that scripturally ignorant? Concerning we Christians can become just like those who died in the desert with Moses:
2 “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. … 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”
So if you want to die just like those did with Moses while God was around them in miracles of fire by night, cloud by day, food every morning, and water coming from a rock wherever they went, then keep at it. If you want to live, then heed the message of Hebrews and do not be like them, but work at mixing the word of God in faith to see miracles and giants overcome. This is your choice, not God’s.
Jesus had people watch Him heal crowds by the thousands, and they still plotted to kill Him. Judas worked miracles in the name of Jesus and betrayed Him. Almost all the original apostles were martyred for working miracles in the name of Jesus. And that is still going on today where rebels, thugs and bandits single out “the miracle men.” What makes you any different?
This is what Jesus said:
46 “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
Until you are willing to believe the Scriptures, what good are you? I did not say this, Jesus did.
Now if you want to obey Jesus and read the scriptures on healing, get my book, FM2, as it has all of them listed for reference.
Royal Touch: History records that miracles in the name of Jesus have been maintained all through Christendom’s history. One of the special ones to me is the “Royal Touch.” This went on from about 1100 to 1850. I don’t remember exactly. Here the kings and queens of England and France held mass divine healing meetings at least once a year, and healed all the people with the “Royal Touch” in the name of Jesus. It is included in the term, the divine right of kings. I am told it is recorded in those nation’s records for all that time. Apparently these records show the annual meetings, the numbers that came, how many got healed right then, and of what.
I am told that many Anglicans or Episcopalians are familiar with this in England. And obviously cessationists are not. Think of it, hundreds of records over 500 years, and you say they are liars.
Just this one item, of the historically validated Royal Touch, is more than enough to shatter the cessationist house of cards and show that cruel and loveless emperor has no clothes. Remember that soldier that Rumsfeld saw who got a miracle? You would rather he have a tombstone in Arlington National Cemetery, than to see him bounding his grandchildren on his knees. This is what I see in your character.
Just this one practice, for some 700 years, shows a continuation of Holy Spirit power when people will believe God in His promises. Thus the dispensation of the apostles continues through to today in signs and wonders. While prejudiced men may proclaim Cessationism, God proclaims the opposite known as Continuationism.
What un-reformed or un-revised history shows is that the gifts of Holy Spirit have been operational in every generation since Jesus, right through to today. And the good news for us today is that Holy Spirit is alive and well on planet earth, and more people are seeing divine healing in our time than ever before in human history.
Qualifications: As Jesus said in Luke 10:11 (above), I am to kick the dust of your corruption, ridicule, mockery and hard heart off of my feet. In order for us to meet, you will have to start by meeting those qualifications I mentioned earlier.
a) Read all three of my Power Trilogy books
b) Read “God of Miracles”
c) Watch all the Todd White videos
d) Go see Rev. Ndifon
For some simplified teaching on this you can go to my website, www.CovenantPeaceMinistries.com and read articles and watch videos for free.
Please tell me when you have done all of this.
Make Compassion Stir You: And in the meantime, go to a children’s hospital ward and stare at that misery until you cry out for God to use you to help them with the name of Jesus. And if that does not do it, go to a veteran’s hospital and do the same. Do it until the briefest glimmer of hope that God could move through you today is possible rises. He can if you would only believe His Scriptures. As a Christian this is what you are made for. And keep considering that Jesus said, “Believers in my name shall, Mark 16:18 …lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.”
Apostles: One of the chief issues with cessationists appears to be answer to prayer and the presence of certain church functions, specifically apostles or those that act like them. Cessationists are known for revising history and the Bible to suit their own beliefs. One of the main principles of Bible study is to neither add to nor remove text. This the cessationists do rather frequently.
In order to support these strange doctrines, along with a lot of other verses, one has to remove much of Ephesians 4 from the Bible. We are told Jesus has given:
Eph 4:11 “And he (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.”
Here are listed 5 unique ministries and all are provided for a purpose. If you have pastors and teachers, you must also have evangelists, and apostles and prophets. These are a set of functions that have a purpose. So if you have pastors you must also have apostles, prophets, evangelists and teachers in the Body of Christ.
And here is the awesome responsibility of these 5 functions:
12 “For the perfecting (maturing) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.”
First, these ministries are not needed in heaven; they are for life on earth. And until their job is done, God has them in the earth. And of great importance are verses 13 and 15. So until these 5 ministries complete their job of verses 13 -15, they are still part of the program of God on earth for today. As their goal is to get us, the members of the Body of Christ, Christians on earth, to “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,” they are still here.
And what does “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ” look like? Here is one description.
34 “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
Note: the actions of Cornelius, a Gentile centurion, got an angel to stand in front of him so he could go get Peter to give him the gospel. This is what acceptance with God looks like.
36 “The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;”
Here is the first summary of the work of Jesus seen in the gospels.
38 “How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Verse Acts 10:38 summarizes that all the miracles Jesus did were in one way or the other, removing the “oppressions of the devil.” This is how Jesus and the early believers walked, and is still the goal of God for His church on earth.
Notice, Jesus removed the oppression or lordship or rulership of the devil to get people healed. Thus sickness is not from God, but the devil, and the job, of those who walk is some measure of the fullness of Christ, in the Church, is to finish what Jesus started.
So until the Body of Christ operates like verse 38, the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are still to be in the Body of Christ. Their purpose is to get us, the ordinary believers walking in this work of the ministry (Eph 4:12) like Jesus did. Then we are operating in “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,” and that we may “grow up into him, Jesus, in all things. And “all things” includes the healings and miracles like Jesus did. And that obviously has not happened. This is the exact opposite of what cessationists claim, and thus their views are very contrary to the core New Testament message. And Eph 4 has never been repealed.
Eph 4:12 “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.”
The evidence of apostles, prophets, etc. is not just that they work miracles, but that they teach the ordinary church members to work miracles as stated: Eph 4:12 “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.” Thus “the work of the ministry” includes getting other people divinely healed.
Are we as effective as Jesus in the gospels? Not yet, but the JGLM-Healing Rooms method comes the closest. There are two different issues. The First is do valid miracles occur today? For that we have overwhelming evidence that they do.
The Second is the level of success. As a general rule, for an active believer it seems that the statistics follow Dr. John Lake’s Healing Rooms of 1914-1924 of about 30% instant and the rest over the course of 30 days of continuous ministry.
For those who do not operate in such divine power, the New Testament provides a strong warning.
2 Tim 3:5 “Having a form of godliness, but denying the dunamis/power (miracle) thereof: from such turn away.”
This by the man who commanded:
1 Cor 14:1 “Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts…”
So if you are not desiring, working at walking in, the spiritual gifts of 1 Cor 12 and Rom 12, you are in disobedience. Thus as long as Holy Spirit is here, the gifts are here for those who desire them. Saying the gifts have stopped does not remove the command to bring them back and operate in them.
And by straight definition, this means cessationists are in rebellion against God. As a result, we are warned to shun such people who deny such operative power of God. So while I am to work with you under certain conditions, I am also to shun and be wary of you to obey the scriptures as described here:
22 “And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”
Now those cessationists who say they would operate these Holy Spirit gifts if God gave them to them, these are denying 1 Cor 14:1. You don’t wait for them; you told to go after them. When you are ready to obey God in this, I will be happy to work with you then.
The bottom line for all of this is that Holy Spirit is still here and does through men and women who will believe, what He always has done, work miracles, signs and wonders, and that will never cease. And by the records of history, He never has.
How To Do It: If Jesus spent 3-6 hours a day, 1-4 all nights a week, and often arose early in the morning for Scripture prayer, and Peter, James, Paul and other disciples did the same, and all taught their disciples to do the same, along with 1-6 hours a day in Holy Spirit tongues, why not you? So if you wonder where your answers from God are, now you know.
If you did not spend the time and “Jesus-effort” before the battle, do not be surprised if you have to spend it in the battle to get victory. Otherwise learn to accept defeat, and blame it on something else rather than your lack of diligence. If you are a child of God, born-again in Jesus, you have all the power of God there is. The issue is you effectively renewing your mind to release God.
God spent the wonder of the Universe, Jesus, for our healing and blessing. The issue is not God withholding anything. The issue is us doing the right things to release Him, as God is no respecter of persons, nor can He show partiality (Acts 10:34-35).
34 “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
This means that all those you think are closer to God than you are did not get there by the special finger of God, but did it by doing more of the right things of God than you did. And that includes Jesus and all the apostles in the Bible. Jesus came as a man and emptied Himself of deity. So He removed from Himself everything that you do not have, so He could do it like you can do it.
But until you repent and seek the Lord in truth, then here is what I am commanded to do with you.
15 “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”
As far as I am concerned, your cessationist views are profane heresy and an obvious blasphemy of the gospel, and at best, shows a gross ignorance of the cross, if not out right denying the power of the cross. I did not say this, God does.
1 Cor 1:15 “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach (command and demonstrate) the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”
1 Cor 2:5 “That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the dunamis/power of God [just like Jesus did and still does today].”
A Bible not devoured is like bags of seed stored away. The potential of God into the earth is there, but rarely a harvest is made. Jesus is the Seed. The only soil that matters is your heart.
The truly difficult thing is the consequences of not managing your thought life.
Keep Working the Word so God can Work!
God Bless You and Yours in the Name of Jesus to be more Noble in Him (Acts 17:11-12)
Jesus is Lord of Heaven and Earth!