I was raised a Catholic in the South, so being a Catholic made me somewhat different. I went to Catholic kindergarten and elementary school up until about the 6th grade. Then I moved into the public school system. Being in a military town, relationships were somewhat fluid. I never noticed in public school that we went to a different church than others. There were so many protestant churches that I was not impressed that one had the truth over another.
Little boys can be very brutal in analysis. No one had the edge on miracles or raising the dead, so my church was not any better than the others. And the Catholic church had history on it’s side.
But in the Catholic Church I learned some valuable principles; one is that God did miracles. Even John Lake commented that he could get Catholics healed quicker over any other group. Second was that if you wanted to follow Jesus it would get you killed. We studied the lives of the apostles and saints. I got the message most of the “good ones” died as martyrs. So I learned the “real deal” had a real price. And a real payoff, the martyrs get a ride right into glory so it is absolutely the best way to go.
The third was long times of prayer.
We were taught that if we prayed little prayers they could be used to get people out of Purgatory. So I would go to bed at night asking the Lord things like, if my Dad (who was killed in Korea when I was 3 and I was the oldest of 3 boys) did not need the prayers, then use them for the one longest in, or the one soonest to come out. The prayers were short and each one had so many days off of time in purgatory. So I figured out which ones had the most time for the least effort, and said anywhere from 10 to a 100 almost every night.
The concept of Purgatory does not seem to be taught much in the Catholic Church today, and I have never heard it in a protestant church. It was one of those things over selling indulgences that fueled the Reformation. Indulgences were if you paid money now then the Church could grant you an “indulgence” that worked with God and you spent less time in Purgatory or got a full pass if you did or paid something special.
This was part of what Martin Luther wanted fixed and I believe rightly so. But the concept of Purgatory is that if you are not just like Jesus when you die then you burn in purgatory until the sin is burned out of your life and then you can go to heaven. Lots of sin meant long time in purgatory, and little sin meant less time. Purgatory had fire like Hell and you suffered until you “got right,” or the sin “purged” out of you.
Now if you die and are not thinking, speaking and acting just like Jesus it is a real problem. But if you go to Heaven that way, and are allowed to mingle in any way with other people or creatures, then you will simply make Heaven into Hell. And that is not an option else Heaven would not be Heaven where all is like and for God in every way. So God has to deal with that in some way.
And if you are ready then you can do healing miracles like Jesus did, and raise yourself from the dead at least once as you die for others. You will at least die a martyrs’ death because keeping you around is the worst thing the devil can think of.
Also we are absolutely told numerous times throughout the Bible that our lives here matter very much. The more you live like Jesus, then you get the eternal rewards of gold, silver and jewels in 1 Cor 3, and everything else is called wood, hay and stubble and is destroyed by fire on Judgment Day. This is bottom line salvation or sozo/saved.
1 Cor 3:10 “According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be sozo/saved; yet so as by fire.”
So our lives and works very much matter in this life. If you have nothing that you and Jesus built together, one meaning of holy, then entering naked is still a wonderful salvation. But what rewards you do earn are of value to you and God forever? So the concept of purgatory is not found directly in the standard Bible, but is found in the Apocrypha. If you look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man, some would also argue the rich man was in purgatory (Luke 16).
From my perspective, if you are not just like Jesus when you die, this leaves several options:
1) You die just like Jesus in full operation of Ephesians 4 and you have vast mountains of rewards and you have learned to hate wickedness and love righteousness. Heb 1:9 “Thou hast agape/loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” [To me Paul and John seem closest to this.]
2) Any sin, less than Jesus you still defend and love when you die, means that your soul must be trained in the Day of Judgment and it is not a pleasant process until you learn: Heb 1:9 “Thou hast agape/loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.” i.e., you are reprogrammed for what you did not get right in this life.
a. And those parts of your life go up in smoke as the fire tests your wood, hay and stubble. And you do not have the gold, silver and jewels you could have had, but you will be reprogrammed to the level of Jesus.
Heb 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”
3) Or you are treated like a computer program and when you die, that which is not like Jesus just goes and you are like a simple computer program with less capability. Thus you are as forever able as your right works, and you have lower capability and rank as those with more right works.
Matt 25:22 “He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents : behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”
4) All three apply after you die. Issues like little children and babies that die are sorted out by the God of Love.
As a child age 8-12 or so I went to bed every night praying for those in purgatory. So that was how my attitude of intercession got built. Today I spend more time in intercession in tongues, but I have written books on praying the Scriptures in intercession. My current view does not include helping those going through the above last 3 options.
But There is More Than Just Heaven-Bound
Bottom line, for those evangelists who are advertising “accept Jesus and go to Heaven” that is absolutely part of God’s message, but unless it is a deathbed conversion there is still a lot of ministry left to be done to reach our job of:
Eph 4:11 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 but speaking the truth in agape/ love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.”
Since that is the job of the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers, if they do not get the job done on Earth, it still needs to be done. But since if nothing else, that scripture is a prophecy, there will be a group on Earth who fulfill it. And those who do not (minister and church member) fall short of the standard set by God, and that means when you die, you are not safe to let loose in Heaven as you are.
Now the difference between purgatory type intercessions, even if it is possible, and healing is that in intercession like that you do not see your answers (i.e., that person getting out of purgatory and going on to Heaven) or do not easily recognize them when they happen (saving a small girl in a typhoon on the other side of the world by your prayer). But in direct contact healing, you can see your results or lack thereof.
Divine Healing Miracles
We all like the instant where healing is immediate while you minister on the street (ad hoc) or in church, a meeting, a healing room or hospital visit. If you do not see an immediate result, if you stay at it you will see more (continued ministry like healing rooms or homes). This is what Dr. Lake did in his healing room and teaching ministry. The more than one prayer to the answer seems to fall short of the Jesus standard. One shot prayer runs less than 100% on the spot for most ministers.
Dr. Lake said he saw often 10-30% one-shot immediate healings. At times he was running +90%. He suspected that his success was a function of those who were interceding in tongues for him. Many of those he prayed for one time then got healed later within 3 to 30 days after the one prayer.
So if you are not aware, you may call a non-instant prayer a failure. Of course, if you are not careful, you may think this breaks faith and they do not get healed. Of if you stay in faith they will if you delivered enough zoe/life when you prayed. Since there is no meter handy to tell how much zoe you delivered, this takes attitude and looking at the Word of God and not the situation.
So my healing success journey was based on my perception of effectiveness and so 10-30% is sporadic enough to make you go, “Ok, I’ll pray, let’s see what happens.” And with that attitude you see very little results, immediate or later.
Now, if we have to and we have time, we pray for hours on one case and see them get out of the wheel chair, or the leg grow back. Still not like Jesus did it, but 16 hours to get one out of a wheelchair may not be your idea of efficiency, but the one who now walks loves it. That I use a dull axe means it takes me a lot more to do the job done, but the job does get done, IF I KEEP AT IT. If you tire or get distracted half way through, then the evil tree does not come down, but you did some good and did not know it.
Catholic Charismatic Pentecostal Prayer Group
When I was around 26 I got baptized in Holy Spirit while reading a book. Then I joined a really wonderful Catholic Charismatic prayer group and started practicing the gifts of Holy Spirit. I say wonderful as they were more concerned with what the Bible said and not Catholic doctrine.
I cannot remember the first miracle I did, but I am sure it was casting out a demon. One of the first healings I recall was a baby who was teething. I prayed, the pain went away, the baby stopped crying. That lasted for a while and then the baby started crying again. I did not know how to fight through that like I do now.
Years passed and I struggled to follow the current “best” teaching and saw few results. I did seek to pray in tongues 1-2 hours a day and I feel that is what got me through. Not knowledge and understanding, but prayer.
Then we had a family member diagnosed with autism. That is when I started seeking the Lord in earnest in healing. I went back and, found Jay Snell, started reading E. W. Kenyon again, then discovered Dr. Lake, and then Curry Blake. That got me going on street ministry and divine healing miracle results started.
Now I preach a Gospel that fulfills Mark 16:
Mark 16:14 “Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be sozo/saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
That means people who listen to me and believe the Gospel are out healing in divine miracles very quickly.
Some are Faster than Others – Does Empty Religion Really Hurt?
Now if a new convert is young (age 2 and up) or has a non-Christian background we can get them healing in an hour to a few days. If they are a spiritist or spiritual, former witch, warlock, witch doctor, guru, energy healers, intuitive, etc. then as they see the more powerful God, they again can go out and minister healing quickly. If it is a long time Christian (non-Catholic), then they are harder. If motivated to just “do it” like the Power and Love ministry, then they see a few miracles and often do not go further and are never “ready” or “right enough” to go do healing. Since healing is a function of “GO AND DO,” then they soon lose interest. If they go back to a regular church, they soon also “die.”
If they go on a mind renewing program and then lifestyle like we teach in OK, God, Now What? then they go and burn bright. If you do not keep renewed, most seem to “FALL AWAY.”
Me, I work at keeping my mind renewed and I listen to a lot of Curry Blake CDs in my car. He is one of the few that “call me up” continually that I can do this. I may listen to one CD for months. I am in no hurry. I know the biology and it takes time to work and I work it. I have had Curry tell me that my books are accurate, so the issue is not more truth; it is knowing the truth to doing it. Most other teaching makes me feel like I need something “extra” that I do not have and the “call up” is much less.
Still In the Yoke With Jesus = Miracles
Oh, and because I am doing audio books of my books, I listen a lot to me while I edit them. I make a rough version and use that to make my final printed version. I listen to each CD over and over. That is how I finish my books, I listen as I pray in tongues and find areas for improvement. I don’t pretend my books are perfect, but they all have months if not years of tongues over them.
Since healing is also an attitude of staying stirred up, my books stir me up and I see God do miracles. Right now where I live, I do not see others doing more than I am, but that is no guarantee. I am in competition with no one except myself and the next moment. I want to see Jesus live through me more. This may be a bad attitude, but at the rate I am going, I need to live at least 10,000 more years to make any progress.
As I have been working on these three books for the last several years, every spare moment is spent in doing them. Much of what I write is direct revelation and only the beginning of the understanding is there. So many times it gets better and better as I read and re-read the material over and over. By the time it has made it into the book, I have lived out what I write. Often I discover what I am doing is already in the book and I did not realize it.
When people want to debate, I may respond with, “Show me how what you are saying will help me heal people better, or walk in more agape/love.” Or “What miracle results is that teaching giving?” That usually stops the debate, but occasionally we do learn something useful to build the Kingdom.
So this is where I am on my still growing “journey.”
God is no respecter of persons. His ways apply to all, all the time. If you do not see God move, the problem is not on the “God” end.
We are destroyed, walk in failure, fear and confusion, by lack of knowledge and lies, not some administrative decision by God.
God is no respecter of persons. Do the right things and you will get the right results; do anything different and you will be unhappy sooner or later. Digital Universe.
Evil works inspired and powered by the devil are no match for the Living God, but they sure tempt fleshly leaky neurons, even in those spiritually righteous.
There are no wrong answers here, only seek more of Jesus who already paid for every failure we ever made, are now making, or will make. Since He was healed of it, so are you.
It will be shameful for you to show up on the Day of Judgment and see that every hardness of heart was already healed and waiting for you to do the right labour to get that hardness of heart healing already done in Jesus.
A Bible not devoured is like bags of seed stored away. The potential of God into the Earth is there, but never a harvest is made. Jesus is the Seed. The only soil that matters is your heart.
Keep Working the Word so God can Work!
God Bless You and Yours in the Name of Jesus to be more Noble in Him (Acts 17:11-12)
Jesus is Lord of Heaven and Earth!
Donald C. Mann
Speaker, teacher, navigator and author of:OK, God, Now What? (OkGodNowWhat.com) Discovering Our Redemption Battle Prayer for Divine Healing-Field Manual 2